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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 22 WCF ??? Hornet??? (Read 8372 times)
henpeckedmuch
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22 WCF ??? Hornet???
Sep 17th, 2008 at 10:45pm
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I understand that the original wincherster Hi and Lo walls were chambered in 22 WCF. And, that these are the same shape cartridges as the smokeless cartridge we all know as the 22 Hornet.
   My question is--Can we shoot factory 22 Hornet ammo in original 22 WCF Hi and Lo wall rifles? I understand that the 22 Hornet creates rather high ,c.u.p units, pressure.
  
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Quarter_Bore
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Re: 22 WCF ??? Hornet???
Reply #1 - Sep 17th, 2008 at 11:01pm
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There are a number of reasons why not to do this. First the caveat about shooting cartridges different then the caliber stamped on the barrel as well as the fact that the .22WCF uses larger diameter bullets and the smaller .22 Hornet bullets would not shoot so good probably. The good news is that you can probably use .22H brass to make .22 WCF ammo by expanding the neck and using the correct sized cast bullets.
  

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38_Cal
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Re: 22 WCF ??? Hornet???
Reply #2 - Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:02am
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Dimensionally, the .22 WCF uses a .228" bullet, while the Hornet uses either a .223" or .224", depending on what bore diameter was used.  You might have to get a custom bullet mold made and a custom expanding die plug to match your bullets.  And, of course, a sizing die that doesn't take the brass down to hold a .223" bullet...

David
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David Kaiser
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tenx
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Re: 22 WCF ??? Hornet???
Reply #3 - Sep 18th, 2008 at 9:57am
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CH4D  (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links);  has the reloading dies for this caliber at $78.25 and NEI (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links); has a bullet that should be suitable. 228-60-GC #7.

PETE
  
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MI-shooter
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Re: 22 WCF ??? Hornet???
Reply #4 - Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:32pm
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Wasn't the 22 WCF rim thickness also thinner than the Hornet to keep from using factory Hornet ammo in 22 WCF?
  
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38_Cal
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Re: 22 WCF ??? Hornet???
Reply #5 - Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:45pm
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MI-shooter wrote on Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:32pm:
Wasn't the 22 WCF rim thickness also thinner than the Hornet to keep from using factory Hornet ammo in 22 WCF?

Might be, but I've worked on a couple of .22 WCF Low Walls that headspaced just fine with Hornet brass.  One thing my ammo collection is lacking is any original WCF brass to be able to measure...

David
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David Kaiser
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thop
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Re: 22 WCF ??? Hornet???
Reply #6 - Sep 18th, 2008 at 10:55pm
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I looked through my box of old cartridges and found a representative .22 Hornet as well as .22 WCF cartridge.  I didn't mike the rims but it appears the shoulders are significantly different.  In the attached picture, comparing the two cartridges side by side, the Hornet is on the right.  Terry
  

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38_Cal
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Re: 22 WCF ??? Hornet???
Reply #7 - Sep 18th, 2008 at 11:09pm
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Thanks for the photo, Terry.  It sure looks like a few thousandths of an inch difference in the rim thickness.  One thing to be aware of is that with rimmed bottlenecked cases, the shoulder location can vary quite a bit from batch to batch or between ammo makers, and still be within spec.  It's not critical as with rimmless cases, since the headspace location is on the rim, not the shoulder.

David
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David Kaiser
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Reverend Al
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Re: 22 WCF ??? Hornet???
Reply #8 - Nov 5th, 2016 at 1:22am
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I realize that this is an ancient thread, but thought maybe I would try to resurrect it?  I have an 1885 Low Wall in .22 WCF which is an ongoing long term project gun.  I bought it years ago and too many other project guns and several family commitments left it relegated to a dusty spot in the back of my gun safe.  I'm hoping to correct that sometime soon though, as at our local 2 day gun show this past weekend I managed to buy 48 rounds of original WW headstamped .22 WCF ammunition.  I already have quite a bit of .22 Hornet brass (some new and some once fired) and I bought an NOE .228" 45 grain FN 3 cavity mould and an NOE .228" neck expander for my Lee Expander die.  I have a .22 Hornet neck die plus a set of FL and seating dies so should be able to "cobble up" some suitable ammo with proper diameter bullets to test in it.  I'll use the factory ammo to compare dimensions in my rifle with both fired and unfired WCF cases to my Hornet cases and go from there.  The rifle was already drilled and tapped for a pair of bases to mount a Unertl style scope and I have a new production 6X Malcom repro scope on hand that I will likely install for the time being to run some initial test targets.  Looking forward to finally getting this rifle out to the range ...
  
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.22-5-40
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Re: 22 WCF ??? Hornet???
Reply #9 - Nov 5th, 2016 at 1:43pm
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Sounds like a fun project.  I have a Shilen barreled panelled Sharps Borchardt in .22 Hornet that I have been shooting cast in since the mid 1990's.  Have Leeth nose-pour copies of the old Ideal 22636 in both gas-check & plain base@ 50grs.  I am sizing these to .226" dia. so were not too far off in dia.  Are you planning to shoot smokeless?  I have found 7.0grs. H4227 to be very accurate.  Best of luck and keep us posted.
  
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Reverend Al
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Re: 22 WCF ??? Hornet???
Reply #10 - Nov 6th, 2016 at 10:16pm
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Yes, the plan is to use smokeless loads with the NOE plain base cast bullet in the Hornet cases I have on hand neck expanded up to the larger diameter bullet to fit the bore.  Will most likely stay in the 1,500 to 1,600 fps range to duplicate the original ballistics of the factory .22 WCF cartridge since I'm not looking to "hot rod" it.  I have a number of suitable powders that I can test in it ... Red Dot, 700X, 231 Winchester, Clays, Nitro 100 (both old and new formulation), IMR4227, and Hercules / Alliant 2400.  I could load different variations to test until the cows come home!  LOL ...
  
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Re: 22 WCF ??? Hornet???
Reply #11 - Nov 7th, 2016 at 7:42am
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Try Lil' Gun unitl it came out this was one finicky little round.

But Lil' Gun has been the "God sent" powder for my Hornets.
  
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JS47
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Re: 22 WCF ??? Hornet???
Reply #12 - Nov 7th, 2016 at 10:03pm
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Amen.

JS
  

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Re: 22 WCF ??? Hornet???
Reply #13 - Nov 19th, 2016 at 10:18pm
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This thread has good information that I didn't know ! I shoot the 22H.  in a 219 savage.! A lo-wall in 22wcf would be a great one to find ....Ol Deuce Wink
  

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Reverend Al
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Re: 22 WCF ??? Hornet???
Reply #14 - Nov 22nd, 2016 at 5:37pm
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Well, I spent the day at the range yesterday with 2 good friends of mine and took a variety of guns along to shoot.  At our recent gun show I lucked into a box of 48 rounds of mixed .22 WCF loaded ammo so I finally took the Low Wall along to try a few factory rounds and see what they would do.  (I let my star shooting pupil shoot it since she is now a more than competent shot after 4 years of coaching.)  Well, the long and the short of it is I'm still not sure what this gun will do!  Half of the rounds misfired and didn't go off even after 2 trys so I'll pull those rounds down and measure the lead bullets for reference (should be .228" diameter bullets?) and the few that did fire didn't hit paper so it appears that the globe front and tang rear sights aren't even close to being on target as they are set right now.  Since the gun is already drilled and tapped for an outside adjustable scope I think I'll slip on a 6X repro Malcolm long tube scope that I have on hand, bore sight it, and then give it another try.

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